Updated 5pm:-4/1 Home Ministry files appeal at Court of Appeal against the High Court decision that allows Catholic weekly, Herald, to use the word 'Allah'/STAR
Original posting ...
A campaign, in the name of Allah. Inevitably, a group of bloggers has stared a campaign, Bloggers against Blasphemies, in response to the High Court ruling allowing the use of "Allah". Blogger SatD, who is initiating the BaB campaign, worries that the judgment would test the collective consciousness of the Malay-Muslim majority of the Malaysian population. "At what price", he asks."... here's the thing about Collective Consciousness.......it defines what is acceptable and what is not in a society.....if killing a person or raping a child is considered acceptable and does not offend the collective consciousness of the society..then it is not a crime to do so.....in that particular society...and the law which governs us is also based on the Collective Consciousness Value System......."Read SatD's call to back this campaign, h e r e. He attaches his posting with the blistering "... a 500-yr old itch?" arguments by Apo, who's hoping that his piece will help the PM's Dept and the Home Ministry in their appeal against the High Court decision.pic, today's headlines of the PM calling for calm.
Also, read Anas Zubedy's "Allah, the Bible, Christians and Muslims" here to understand why even the more open-minded Muslims can be offended by the High Court judgement:'Failing to do so will create mistrust because the correct term for God in Malay is Tuhan.The Muslims will question your consistency and sincerity.
Because the real issue here is Trust. Not the technicality of the term Allah, Tuhan, Elohim, Elah etc.'
More related postings:
Bujai: May "ALLAH" bless Augustine Paul
The economy has not fully recovered (No Concern) The government has run out of money and is trying to raise money via the controversial GST (goods and services tax, Prices of all Goods Up(No Worries), Crime is rampant - rape and murder of children, snatch theft,Corruption is rampant(No Issue). The judiciary, police and the MACC? Well, you get the idea(No Problem), Competition and Competitiveness (No Need), Good Education, Housing and Health (No interest)
ReplyDeleteAnd here we are all fighting on the use of the word 'Allah'. What a sham.... I am sure God is either laughing at us or crying for us.
PS Pls read "Confident people do not get confused" by — Marina Mahathir @ rantingsbymm.blogspot.com.
VAN
Nik Aziz and the PAS people as champions of Islam should now request that the Cross be allowed for use by them in Kelantan. He has already gotten unofficial rights to share the turban with Sikhs, so one more request will unite the community further, towards One Malaysia.
ReplyDeleteA GOOD MAN DOES NOTHING.
Very nice diversion from UMNO-BN . Now people have forgotten about the 2 missing engines, rising prices of sugar (incidentally after felda bought over a sugar refinery), teoh beng hocks post mortem, TDM's 100billion loss of rakyat's money and PI Bala agreeing to meet MACC.
ReplyDeleteHope you guys know what you are doing. Dangerous waters you guys chose to sail through here..
As a Muslim who lives and pay my taxes in Malaysia, at the end of the day, I expect nothing short than what the majority of Muslims here expect. That the position of Islam here now and in the future shall not be manipulated or subjected to non-Muslims' "grand design" or scheming.
ReplyDeleteOur expectations may be lowered if we were in France, Switzerland or Singapore. What we cannot comprehend is why a minority group, albeit powerful, in this country cannot lower their expectations, in the wider interest of peaceful co-existence. Kenapa mesti beria-ia benar nakal mahu jolok sarang tabuan?
Islam as the official religion. Majlis Fatwa Kebangsaan. State Religious Enactmens. Shariah Court. Jakim. Rulers' Councils. Rulers as the protector of Islam. Mana nak letak semua ni?
Itulah pentingnya sejarah, penting adanya BTN. Supaya reti...
Dengan adanya percubaan demi percubaan untuk menenggelamkan daulat bangsa, adam resam dan agama orang Melayu, saya nak serulah sama orang Melayu. Cukuplah bagi can kat depa. What is politics if in the end there's no more honour and dignity. Nak popular (among non-Muslims) atau liberal tang mana sangat. In the end kita semua kembali ke mana? Takpalah tak ramai leh jadi tycoon atau menteri pun. Asai bila nak meninggal, syahadah mantap, gembira menuju ke akhirat...dan bukannya ayaq mata duk meleleh mengenangkan agama Islam di Malaysia Tanah Air Ku. Tolong faham ini sentimen dan aspirasi orang kampung. Depa tak nak dengaq murtad situ murtad sini...
Cukuplah peristiwa Natrah berlaku sekali. Ambillah iktibar. Sementara "kuasa" dunia masih ada, gunakanlah ia untuk jalan Allah, agama Allah didahulukan. Barulah betoi itu perjuangan.
Gunakanlah cabaran spesifik ini utk menguatkan lagi kedudukan orang Melayu, agama Islam, Perlembagaan dan Raja-Raja supaya tidak berlaku lagi selepas ini sebarang angkara yg boleh memudharatkan kesejahteraan bangsa, agama dan negara.
Van,
ReplyDeleteYes, knowing all the problems you wrote about, those whom you support still pursue the issue?
Not that I agree with the extent of the problems that you seem to imply.
You must have a funny God to be "laughing at us". Or you have no God. Or you practise Confucianism, Taoism, Buddhism, all three at the same time? And now inclined towards Christianity, too?
Pls read "Half-baked, pseudo liberal and forget-her-root intellectual get cu..fused" - still in the press, soon to be released.
they should also translate the holy ghost as Hantu Suci, or Polong Suci or Pontianak Suci or whatever can be found in the Malay mythical or paranormal vocabulary.
ReplyDeleteIt will help the missionary as the terms will appeal more to the Malay, I'm sure.
Yang kelakarnya, orang PAS boleh letak kesalahan pada UMNO sebab letak hakim bukan Islam, betul-betul tukar belit, baca kat sini
ReplyDeletehttp://ajijoi.blogspot.com/2010/01/umno-kalut-setelah-gagal-pertahan.html
Ini taktik serampang dua mata;-
1-bahawa UMNO/BN boleh menentukan hakim di mahkamah,
2-lepaskan kesalahan mereka yang awal-awal menyokong penggunaan Allah oleh kafir.
kesimpulan: mereka kata mereka bertuhankan Allah, tetapi sebenarnya mereka bertuhankan politik/kuasa
-koko
Aku paling menyampah bila orang bukan Islam bercakap; "oh, ini masalah kecil, ada masalah besar lagi seperti ragut, MACC, corruption, etc, etc"
ReplyDeleteKalau nak tahu kecil tak kecil, kenapa mereka bising bila orang Melayu sebut pasal hapuskan sekolah Cina?, yang juga merupakan masalah kecil, setakat tidak boleh berbahasa Cina tidak akan memusnahkan negara, setakat tidak boleh menari tarian Singa negara tidak akan mundur; ada perkara lain lagi yang lebih penting dari sekolah Cina, soal ragu, corruption, etc, etc. Kenapa begitu sensitif? Kenapa bertindak tidak waras?
Yang sialnya, mereka bukan Christian pun! mereka budhist? Apa motif?
-koko
salam
ReplyDeleteagree with marina... this is crazy and may Allah 4give this fullers
Part of New Years Joke,,
ReplyDeleteGod must be laughing,,!!!!!
Think of the Economy,,,FUCKUATE,,,!!!
Companys not giving out Calenders,, Dairy,,Organiser and worst when come to Festive season,, NO HAMPERS or ANG POW,,,,!!!!
How Bad is the Malaysian Economy!!!
FUCK THE GOVERMENT.
-bong Ngok-
Bro,
ReplyDeleteHanya org Islam moderate yang diketuai oleh Khalid Samad jer yg pandang isu ni sgt remeh n menyokong keputusan mahkamah. Sedangkan implikasi dan kesan pada masa hadapan adalah sangat besar walaupun isu ni asalnya remeh.
Sebab utama ialah sistem kehakiman dan perlembagaan kita yg masih lagi berbaur penjajah.
Sekiranya mahkamah sudah membenarkannya, ia akan jadi rujukan 'precedent' pada masa akan datang apabila secara rasminya orang kristian mendapat pengiktirafan mahkamah bahawa 'God/lord or Trinity' tersebut boleh digantikan dengan dengan nama 'Allah' selain drp kata ganti 'Tuhan' yang bermaksud lebih universal di dalam bahasa Melayu.
Selepas tu, puak kristian yang berpangkalan di PJ, Selangor (bukan Sabah & Sarawak) akan mula lah buat banner Allah, panggil Gereja Allah, Allah Yesus' dsbg. Kalau ade org Islam tentang jer, terus diaorg bawak ke mahkamah dan mahkamah terpaksa bersetuju disebabkan kes ini telah pun diiktiraf atau menang sebelum ini.
Tindakan setengah Umat Islam terutamanya NGO Islam untuk membawa kes lebih lanjut hingga tindakan memprotes adalah satu tindakan yang sangat suci & mulia. Tak kisahla kalau orang kafir kata isu ni remeh, isu korupsi, ekonomi adalah isu lebih utama. Tolong jgn percaya dakyah mereka, kerana kemakmuran dan rezeki yang Allah swt limpahkan ke bumi Malaysia ini adalah disebabkan kebanyakkan umat Islam di Malaysia ni masih taat kepada perintah Allah dan Jabatan Agama kita kuat menentang ajaran syirik dan murtad.
Harus diingat bala Allah swt adalah lagi bahaya sekiranya kita tidak mempertahankan agamanya daripada mengikuti propaganda orang kristian pelampau.
Diminta orang umat Islam yang salleh mari kita melawan golongan Islam liberal yang diketuai oleh Khalid Samad, Marina Mahathir, SIS, 3 ekor bin Ibrahim, Farish Nur yang sentiasa memusuhi dan menghina islam atas kebebasan bersuara.
Allahu Akhbar.
Are these bloggers also against the cow head protestors?
ReplyDeleteThe Al-Islam journalist who took Holy Communion in the Catholic church?
Or just Blasphemies against Islam?
MELAYU pun salah juga..ramai tidak ingat Allah..Islam bila nak nikah, cukur jambul..gi makkah.
ReplyDeleteRamai celebrate Tahun Baru 1 Januari...itukan dicipta Paderi Katolik Paul Gregory pada 1582. Hari Kekasih pun ramai terjebak semula.
walaupun syariat Kristian kita tolak tapi syiarnya kita rayakan. Pada 1511 dulu akhirnya penjajah Portugis paksa kita tukar daripada kalender Muharram kepada kalender kristian diubah dpd kalender Julius Caeser.
sedarlah Melayu-Islam kita cuti 25 Dis...perayaan krismas..ada ustaz kata kita syirik senyap2 - habis pahala puasa kita digunakan bayar dosa rayakan perayaan kristian.
saya pernah lihat melayu kita dalam longkang hari cuti perayaan tahun baru dan tahun baru cina!...
bila ada orang tuduh melayu tak solat di masjid malas solat jumaat asyik ke hatyai... ramai marah tapi inilah hakikatnya...!
mujur ada juga perayaan sambut Muharram..patut lebih meriah kerana tulah tahun baru Islam...ayoh tu kalangan yang kini asyik nak bergaduh fasal tauliah, wahabbi. tengoklah apa dah jadi. Melayu-Islam junjung syiar Kristian. kita perkukuh syiar ikhwanul muslimin.
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I totally agree that Allah is reserved only for Malay Muslim! Our Koran should not be tainted with Christianity. We should also change the names of the Christian gods such as Nabi Isa, Mariam and Musa to more Arabic names!
ReplyDeletePlease save our Koran!
Please leave your suggestion here my Muslim brothers :-
Nabi Isa = Nabi Mohammed Osama (as a tribute to our Allah soldiers)
Mariam = Rosmah Mamimul Aitulah
Musa = Khomeni Hashid bin Salhuddin Saad
The Almightly is all powerful and merciful. And he certainly does not need sinful and feeble man to defend Him.
ReplyDeleteReligion is a personal experience and between solely man and his Maker. We will miss the whole point and indeed we have missed the point (not only in Malaysia)all this while because we have institionalized religion and have large political finger prints in religious matters.
Who gave the politicians any right to dwell in matters pertaining to religion and faith? Separation between what is secular and sacred is needed for a harmonious society. History has proven that to be the case time after time!
It has everything to do with AKIDAH
ReplyDeleteIt is not about confident muslims but rather
Allah is ESA-the one and only
Allah cannot be similar to His being
Read the argument in terms of TAUHID in my blog
To make similarity between muslim Allah and the trinity God in Christianity is also blasphemy.
Too many so-called men of god have been fighting each other for thousands of years, all in the name of god. Yet all of them think they are going to heaven. If heaven is full of these kind of people, i will give heaven a miss. I prefer hell...at least playboy bunnies will be there. Cool.
ReplyDeletePening Kepala
Aku berharap supaya semua YB-YB PAS dan PKR ISLAM menyokong penggunaan ALLAH oleh Gereja Kristian kerana;
ReplyDelete1. Kita perlu tolerensi dengan DAP dan Kristian dalam PKR lagi pun ramai penganut Kristian yang sokong PAS.
2. Lagi pun PAS sekarang bukan perjuangkan NEGARA ISLAM cuma keadilan sahaja.
3. Apa nak takut KArpal Singh pun dah ada BULAN di dada.
4. Apa lah sangat bila generasi anak-anak kita tanya kenapa kita tak Kristian kerana mereka pun sembah ALLAH.
5. Lepas ni minta DEWAN BAHASA dan PUSTAKA tukar balik istilah GOD=ALLAH bukan TUHAN.
6. Lepas tu kita seluruh umat ISLAM dan KRISTIAN semua sama-sama BUAT REFERENDUM dan HANTAR ke VATICAN CITY minta POPE mengarahkan supaya semua KITAB BIBLE menukar semua perkataan tuhan/god kepada ALLAH.
7. Minta Ketua Gereja Kristian yang membantah secara terang-terangan Mengaku bahawa ALLAH itu adalah ESA,tiada ana dan tidak memperanakan dan Tiada Tuhan Melainkan ALLAH.
Kalau semua perkara diatas boleh dilakukan aku selaku Penganut Agama ISlam sanggup terima.
Kesimpulannya jangan la disebabkan 1MALAYSIA kamu semua nak 1ALLAH? Aku tak kisah cuma mengucaplah Aku bersaksi Tiada Tuhan yang Disembah melainkan ALLAH dan sesungguhnya Aku bersaksi bahawa Nabi Muhammad itu adalah PESURUH ALLAH..
wassalam
you got it on the nose when you said it is about trust and this is what we have been consistently saying all along
ReplyDeletebut desperate politicians like Anwar Ibrahim and Khalid Samad only care about votes and not the greater interest of the people, of Muslims specifically.
the thing is if they want to fight for christianity that is fine by me but do tell me so that I know who to vote for..
read my view of the issue HERE
http://marahku.blogspot.com/2010/01/fighting-over-allah-just-saying-it.html
Minta la seorang MP yang betul-betul sayangkan ISLAM untuk memulakan satu BANTAHAN kepada VATICAN/POPE..minta semua MP yang betul-betul sayangkan ISLAM supaya tandatangan..
ReplyDeleteBetul ke VATICAN telah memperakui bahawa ALLAH itu ESA tiada yang lain tuhan yang layak disembah melainkan ALLAH? Tiada lagi Bapa Tuhan,Anak Tuhan dan Hantu Tuhan??
I fully the support the desire of anyone to use the word 'Allah' to refer to his God. After all, that's what it means.
ReplyDeleteHowever, I question the motive of the Herald to sue for the use of the word. The Reverend Lawrence Andrew does not preach exclusively in the outer reaches of Borneo, and the word 'Allah' is only used in its Bahasa Malaysia section.
Clearly, it is for the benefit of new or potential Malay-speaking convert.
-Nasi Lemak
Reply to Anon 2.03
ReplyDeleteIt not God that is funny, its people that does thing funnily
So guys carry on have fun with this issue whilst others suffer with all the prices increases. Isn't it God's will that whoever in power act justly towards the poor and needy?
VAN
I glad to hear if Tan Sri Murphy Pakiam the so-called champion of this issue says: Allah Maha Besar in his church or Allah is Great or speaks Allahuakbar in Arabic.He must say Allah instead of Jesus when refering to God in his church for English sermon.
ReplyDeleteHe must put kalimah 'ALLAH' in Arabic,BM, ENGLISH and paste at the wall of all church in Malaysia.
Is he want to do?
I can say,he afraid to do so.
we r ready..we got numbers...dont until blood to be the end of the story...we r sick and tired waiting for coward muslim leaders to take an action...let the war begin for the sake of ' agama suci Allah '
ReplyDeleteSince when did this become an issue manipulated by Anwar Ibrahim, Lim Kit Siang or the Opposition?
ReplyDeleteIn the same way we lost Pedra Blanca due to incompetent and half-baked UMNO/BN Ministers, AG and Federal Govt Lawyers and (un)Civil Servants, so too an issue that was isolated to Sarawak for several centuries has been allowed to spread to West Malaysia!!
If you must look for a scapegoat, look no further than PM Najib's Government, which through complacency and neglect, has sown further the seeds of dissent and disunity.
This matter should not have gone to the Courts at all for resolution. In the immortal words of Churchill, it should have been 'Jaw, Jaw; not War, War!!"
Remember, ShamsulYunos and others, this is the Govt you voted in. So, now you pay the price!
dpp
We are all of 1 race, the HUuan Race
Not everyone is as confident as MM and not all muslims have the ability to think like MM. So does other religions.
ReplyDeleteI'm still waiting for the Roman Catholic views on this.
I will agree if alllllll the translated bibles in the the world are using ALLAH!
Nonpartisan1973
Why is it that the Muslims in East Malaysia, the Arabs and other non-Malay Muslims are not 'confused' by the term Allah when used by their Christian brethren in their respective regions?
ReplyDeleteBut yet Rocky, you and a number of others seem to suggest that Malays are weak minded and not secure enough in our beliefs that we will be somehow 'confused' by Christians in the Peninsula using the term in Malay?
We aren't sheep who can be so easily led... or have you no confidence in your religious beliefs.
After reading former Mufti Asri, Nik Aziz and Khalid Samad it is all about your own self worth and belief.
Reply to Anon 2.03
ReplyDeleteDoes your comment mean we all have different Gods and as such there is no one and only God!
What a hypocrite.....
DAN
Ooooh I see now. Christian God no name maaaaa? Why must ciplak from other religion? Why must same with islam, Why not take god name from Buddha or Hindu. Can anyone christian out there explain over this confusion...
ReplyDeleteNorza Zakaria adalah pengarah di Tabung Haji, sila layar
ReplyDeletehttp://lanunth.blogspot.com
Why oh Why should the term "Allah" which had been used for some 400 years by a small tribe in Borneo be denied that right. Bear in mind "Allah" is not a trademark! or copyrighted.
ReplyDeleteConfident Muslims do not get confused about the use of "Allah", wrote Marina Mahathir. She failed to state stupid Muslims will be confused. Maybe it is true that the Govt and many Religious groups are concerned/aware there are too many stupid Muslims in Malaysia due to poverty and poor education.
"Allah" is being used by Arabs and even Sikh who are not Muslims. Indonesians are not confused with "Allah" in their Bahasa Indonesia's Bibble. Why Malaysian Muslims will be confused is the work of politicians to divert attention away from current issues. Why is it a problem NOW on the use of Allah but not before?
Democracy is not about majority rule otherwise it will be mob rule. Democracy is about majority rule and the protection of the minorities right.
- Liberal
RockyBru...
ReplyDeleteWhy the Govt takes more than 24 hours to appeal for this cases whereby in Nizar cases not long ago, the govt (UMNO/BN) almost immediately appeal within 24 hours and won a "stay of execution"???
Is there any hidden agenda for this?
I have posted my comments somewhere else before this and I post it again here,with some minor amendments.
ReplyDeleteHaven't you all come across jokes making fun of Gods? The numerous Gods that different people and religions pray to. Gods depicted in pictures, photos and videos having hands as many as the millipedes and centipedes, noses that look exactly like an elephant's and ears as large as an elephant's too. There are Gods who look more like ghosts and monsters to me but what the heck, they are still some people's Gods. There are Gods made of stones, steel, timber, paper and and even plastic. Gods that look like clowns, etc., etc. Then, the numerous jokes about St Peter, Noah and Abraham, well they are not Gods but Gods' lackeys. People also make fun of Gautama Buddha; well, he's still God to some.
People make fun of other people’s Gods, but when it comes to your turn, you become so agitated.
If you read some publications from the West, they have always, since a very long time ago, make fun of 'Allah' and Prophet Muhammad (PBUH). Many of these literature have found its way here. The most common one was about the mountain and the Prophet.
I bought a book on Islamic History in Kuala Lumpur published by Reader's Digest some time ago and in it is shown a drawn picture of the Prophet (PBUH) full face and in full gear with his beard, no moustache and his famous gilded sword, looking at a map of areas and territories showing the spread of Islam. As a devoted and staunch Muslim, It (the picture) didn't affect me a bit. (...contd).
Did Hishammuddin or JAKIM, or the people holding the respective appointments before them, sue all these publications? No, they didn't!
ReplyDeleteAnyway, if KDN and JAKIM and now the PM’s Dept want to file an appeal on the recent verdict on the use of 'Allah' by the Herald - The Catholic Weekly that didn't come their way, fine, go ahead with it. I think the Appeals Court with a totally different set of owl-like learned judges, maybe this time with all Muslim judges, will deem the verdict wrong and say that the judge Madam Justice Lau Bee Lan had erred, and then give the benefit to the plaintiff and the whole thing will start all over again, and there will be no end and becomes fodder for us writers and bloggers both local and foreign, like you and I, for as long as the case continues. That's the way the Malaysian Judiciary System works, if you all had observed it carefully. The Muslims, upon hearing the new verdict, will obviously be very happy and then the Archbishop Dominic Vendargon, Archbishop Murphy Nicholas Xavier Pakiam and Father Lawrence, The Herald’s editor, will probably seek the advice of a Queen’s Counsel (QC), no, this time it will not be Mrs Blair again (though she would very much like to come to Malaysia again), and perhaps they will go all the way to Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger ( Pope Benedict XVI), for a solution.
Personally, I think, this whole issue has been wrongly handled from Day 1. In the first place, it shouldn't have gone to a Civil Court because it is an issue pertaining to religions, viz. Islam and Christianity. So, it should be handled by our Ulamaks and for them to have a dialogue with the Archbishop and his trusted senior aides and and at best, go to the Syariah Court, or any other better forum, if they exists. There, these people should try to amicably settle the issue and remain friends in the spirit of 1Malaysia. The Council of Ulamaks can then come out with a Fatwa that please the majority, otherwise, refer it to the Grand Imam at Al-Azhar, among others, for his grand opinion. We can then move on to better things after that.
I have a feeling that this is a ‘diversion’ created by people in the know and in power to sway us Malaysians, for as long as possible, from talking about and discussing more crucial issues such as the price increase in sugar and some other commodities that will be announced soon, Teoh Beng Hock’s case, where to get the money to pay government servants’ next month's salaries (EPF, Tabung Haji, Petronas or borrow from our neighbour?), corruption involving some big fish, etc.
One day, a boy asked a Catholic Priest after completing Sunday Mass, 'Other than praying and preaching, do you have any fun at all?'
The Priest answered,' Nun, Nun and Nun.' Reader’s Digest’, January 2010.
Why aren’t there any more beautiful women in Italy now and Sophia Loren, having past 80, is still considered the most beautiful woman there?
Because, the harems in Rome in the days of the Roman Empire only had men.
Best regards.
so many muslims here standing up for the good of Allah but I wonder how many of these same fellas who are shouting on top of their voice truly fear God / Allah? You still think it is okay for one who believes in Allah to practice corruption? To murder? To steal? In whose name are they doing all these?
ReplyDeleteniaseng!
Don't you agree that every citizen has the right to choose their own religion? Malaysia is not a communist state and even communist state do allow freedom of religion, why not Malaysia? Do you really believe Malaysia can achieve 1st world status come 2020 and not allowing every citizen to choose the religion of their choice?
ReplyDeleteI notice that in your country the economy is doing badly, why is there still so much time to debate on religion? Don't waste time in something that does not bring benefit to your country. God belongs to everyone and he hate those who waste their time debating.
ReplyDeleteVan,
ReplyDeleteTell marina, children are not considered "confident people".
Since when is marina an expert on religion??
salam
ReplyDeleteTidak ada logiknya Kristian gunakan nama Allah untuk refer Tuhan mereka. Mengapa di Malaysia dibangkitkan persoalan ni? Kat Barat sana tak pernah nak pun refer Allah sebagai Tuhan orang Kristian. Ini adalah taktik halus untuk kelirukan umat Islam ........
Moga Allah selamatkan agamaku Islam di Malaysia
Rocky
ReplyDeleteMay this be the start of catholics converting to Islam through their daily use of 'Allah'.
There is no 'Allah'. Suckers!
ReplyDeleteNo God. Just imaginary friend. Big scary ghost in the sky.
TRUST?
ReplyDeletejudging from the uproar over this, then there's none, i guess.
farha
Constitution of Malaysia
ReplyDeleteArticle number: 11
11.
(1) Every person has the right to profess and practice his religion and, subject to
Clause (4), to propagate it.
(2) No person shall be compelled to pay any tax the proceeds of which are
specially allocated in whole or in part for the purposes of a religion other than his
own.
• (3) Every religious group has the right -
o (a) to manage its own religious affairs;
o (b) to establish and maintain institutions for religious or charitable
purposes; and
o (c) to acquire and own property and hold and administer it in accordance
with law.
• (4) State law and in respect of the Federal Territories of Kuala Lumpur and
Lubuan, federal law may control or restrict the propagation of any religious
doctrine or belief among persons professing the religion of Islam.
• (5) This Article does not authorize any act contrary to any general law relating to
public order, public health or morality.
Sahabatku warga Malaysia,
ReplyDeleteketepikan seketika keputusan mahkamah. Adakah begitu penting penggunaan kalimah Allah dalam kitab Injil versi Bahasa Melayu? Adakah kalimah Allah juga Akan digunakan untuk Kitab Injil versi bahasa lain? Atau ianya khusus untuk diamalkan di Malaysia? Sekiranya ya, maka apakah justifikasinya di atas?
Setahu saya sepanjang hidup Dan pergaulan dengan penganut Kristian selama 40 tahun hanya kalimah Jesus sahaja yang digunakan. Kenapa tiba-tiba timbul versi kalimah Allah pula. Lupakan sajalah penggunaan kalimah Allah sebab bukan sahaja nanti penganut Islam keliru tetapi juga penganut Kristian.
Apakah keutamaan kita sebagai rakyat Malaysia yang prihatin sekarang? Adakah berbaloi untuk penganut Kristian berbalah hanya dengan penggunaan kalimah Allah? Bukan mereka tiada pilihan lain. Seantaro dunia Akan faham jika kalimah Jesus digunakan.
Janganlah disalahgunakan keindahan Bahasa Malaysia kita. Manatau Ada mamat yang mereng nanti guna pula bahasa untuk panggilan anjingnya "Keling Pundek", "Cina Kui" atau "Keling Paria" . Tiada salahnya memanggil anjingnya peliharaannya dengan Nama tersebut tetapi nanti Terdapat kawan kita yang tersinggung. Jadi maksudnya disini adalah sekiranya penggunaan Bahasa kita Akan menimbulkan keresahan, kemarahan, penghinaan akibat penggunaan bahasa tersebut eloklah dipertimbangkan penggunaannya semula.
Apek Kampung
Kumpulan Facebook `Menentang Penggunaan nama Allah oleh Bukan Islam' yang baru dibuka tidak sampai tiga hari telah mengumpulkan sejumlah 19,000 orang pengikut sehingga jam 700 malam tadi.
ReplyDeleteAtas rasa tanggung jawab untuk mempertahankan aqidah Muslim juga, Persatuan Pengguna Islam Malaysia (PPIM) telah mengadakan borang petisyen dalam talian untuk bantahan ini.
Bagi umat Islam, marilah kita menunjukkan solidariti untuk sama-sama menyokong petisyen dan kumpulan Facebook di atas. Tunjukkanlah, biarpun kita tidak dapat bersama rakan-rakan menunjukkan bantahan, kita tetap bersama mereka di dalam minda, hati dan perjuangan.
Difahamkan di pelbagai peringkat dan di masjid-masjid, semakin ramai orang Islam yang berbincang tentang apa yang hendak dilakukan agar generasi masa hadapan tidak dikelirukan dan dapat dipertahankan.
Hari ini, jumlah blog yang menyatakan bantahan sudah melebihi ratusan dan tidak sempat untuk dipantau lagi. Rata-rata menyatakan kemarahan, tidak puas hati dan kerisauan mereka tentang masa depan umat Islam.
http://tunfaisal.blogspot.com/2010/01/allah-itu-esa-hari-ketiga-yang.html
I see a very confused bunch of people here, starting with the author. Seemingly confident and yet lacking any. Making a non-event an event. A non-factor a factor. Go back and see when all this started? Go back an see who started it! He may or may not have been right. But he certainly has stirred a whole lot of shit. An what I see here is people joining in without any care or common sense.
ReplyDeleteIf calling God in another name "Allah" is an issue to some people than this people are simply morons and who has peanuts size brain. How can your believe in God is so weak that what other people says weaken you?
ReplyDeleteRemove the Indian words, the Chinese words and the English words from our National language and I will call everyone hero but by then you will be Sakai living on trees. Hehe...
ReplyDeleteRocky... just to ask. The definition of Allah according to Wikipedia. - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allah
ReplyDeleteAllah (Arabic: الله, Allāh, Turkish: Allah, IPA: [ʔalˤːɑːh] ( listen)) is the standard Arabic word for God.[1] While the term is best known in the West for its use by Muslims as a reference to God, it is used by Arabic-speakers of all Abrahamic faiths, including Christians and Jews, in reference to "God".[1][2][3] The term was also used by pagan Meccans as a reference to the creator-god, possibly the supreme deity in pre-Islamic Arabia.[4]
The concepts associated with the term Allah (as a deity) differ among the traditions. In pre-Islamic Arabia amongst pagan Arabs, Allah was not considered the sole divinity, having associates and companions, sons and daughters - a concept which Islam thoroughly and resolutely abrogated. In Islam, the name Allah is the supreme and all-comprehensive divine name. All other divine names are believed to refer back to Allah.[5] Allah is unique, the only Deity, creator of the universe and omnipotent.[1][2] Arab Christians today use terms such as Allāh al-ʼAb ( الله الأب, "God the Father") to distinguish their usage from Muslim usage.[6] There are both similarities and differences between the concept of God as portrayed in the Qur'an and the Hebrew Bible.[7]
In the region of the Malay archipelago, isn't language more of a reason.
Besides, one would have to be really ignorant wouldn't they to be 'misled'.
Just asking. Sorry if I offended anyone.
I just honestly dont understand why all of the sudden they wants to use Allah instead of god, but then again Allah is god in arabic...i guess its a non issue to begin with..
ReplyDeleteThe concern here is the manner of such translation. Here are my questions:
ReplyDelete1.
Is it the publication is just for Christians (as outlined in the hearing), and the content will not be used to preach other non-Christians? [Adakah penerbitan itu hanya untuk penganut Kristian, dan kandungan terjemahan itu tidak digunakan untuk berdakwah kepada bukan Kristian?]
2.
Are the current Malaysian Christians do not understand that God (in English) is “Tuhan” in Bahasa Malaysia? (I’m sorry, but I have to ask this.. because this shows how good is your English and Bahasa Malaysia. :) ) [Adakah penganut Kristian di Malaysia tidak memahami "God" (dalam Bahasa Inggeris) adalah "Tuhan" dalam Bahasa Malaysia"? (Maaf, tetapi saya terpaksa bertanya.. kerana ini menunjukkan tahap penguasaan Bahasa Inggeris dan Bahasa Malaysia juga. :) )]
3.
Why the translation of God to be Allah being done now? Even though it is said hundreds years ago, why now? Why wouldn’y it be done years ago? [ Kenapa terjemahan itu dilakukan sekarang? Walaupun dikatakan sudah beratus tahun, kenapa sekarang? Kenapa tidak bertahun dahulu?]
4.
Why just the translation of God to be “Allah” just in Bahasa Malaysia”? Will it be used in other languages? [ Kenapa terjemahan "God" kepada "Allah" cuma dalam Bahasa Malaysia? Adakah ianya akan digunakan didalam bahasa lain?]
* I’ve taken the liberty of translating the questions to be answered either in Bahasa Malaysia or English.
I do hope somebody can give me an honest answer.
Thank you.
~ OnDaStreet
http://ondastreet.wordpress.com
funny u said 'even the right minded muslims will be offended'
ReplyDeletebut i have read many comments from muslims who have no problem with hereld using the world 'ALLAH', i.e. in Malaysiakini?
if you care to look?
ape guna nye kalau nama je yg dipertahan....sedangkan agamanye, suruhannye, larangannye dilempar ke longkang...
ReplyDeletetotaly agreed with AFGHANIS
ReplyDeleteBro I am even more baffled at PAS stand on this issue check this out
ReplyDeletehttp://lipassepi.blogspot.com/2010/01/sinatraz-now-who-is-spinning-here.html
I do agree that the desecration of a religion is wrong - but i also believe that its more than a name. The unscrupulous usage of a act that provides for detention without trial by itself is unIslamic in every way - Muhammad (PBUH) fought till the day he died for what he described as justice. In fact - the right to see your accuser was coined by Prophet. Why do we want to look at this as something that brings ire upon us? Islam is a peaceful relegion - one that states that the biggest fight would ever need to fight in your life is within yourself. Its beautiful. I was in Saudi, Yemen (Where the say the famous Al-Qaida is now), Egypt and so one - and so many beautiful people i met there described God as "Allah". The fact that i was in an area that has been occupied by humans of great intellect for over 2000 years was reflected not so much in the intelligence (Islam has much to credit for in that field) - but for the maturity of the religions in the region. Leave it be - my belief is that if you are easily enough to be confused that you may "stumble" into another religion - how strong is your faith in the first place? If you are easily confused into mistaking Allah to be any other entity - then you are a fundamentally flawed muslim - There is only one Allah. There is no SUITABLE term for in when it comes to this - HE is the all encompassing. The term Allah is NOT exclusive - its inclusive.
ReplyDeletemasa ada 2/3 majoriti korang main-main. kau tengok sikit bila korang dah takda 2/3 majoriti, bangsa lain tu ada main-main tak?
ReplyDeleteI don't really understand why people make a fuss of it when the court says that it is constitutional to use the word "Allah".It is the mind of the bigots and narrow-minded people who are making the situation tense and angry.The word does not make you rich,popular or change your religion,right?
ReplyDeleteThe Most fundamental teaching of the prophet Muhammad (PBUH) is faith in The Oneness of Allah. This is expressed in the primary Kalimah of Islam as “There is no deity but Allah” ( La Ilaha Illallah ). This illuminating phrase is the bedrock of Islam, its foundation and its essence. It is the expression of this belief which differentiates a true Muslim from a kafir (an unbeliever)or mushrik (one who associates others with Allah).
ReplyDeleteThe acceptance or denial of this phrase produces a world of difference among people. The believers in it become on single community and the unbelievers form an opposing group. For the believers there is the prospect of unhampered progress and success in this world and in the Hereafter, while failure and torture are the ultimate lot of those who refuse to believe in it.
But the difference between believers and unbelievers does not result from the mere chanting of a new words. Obviously, the mere utterance of a phrase or two is not in itself important. The real difference lies in the conscious acceptance of this doctrine and complete adherence to it in practical life. Mere repetition of the word ‘food’ cannot fight hunger; mere chanting of a medical prescription cannot heal the disease.
In the same way, if the Kalimah is repeated without any understanding, it cannot work the revolution which it is meant to bring about. This can occur only if a person grasps the full meaning of the doctrine and accepts and follows it in letter and spirit.
I guess we can change a word in our national anthem;
ReplyDeleteRAHMAT BAHAGIA, ALLAH KURNIAKAN...
RAJA KITA SELAMAT BERTAKHTA....
Bloggingsucks
Satu lagi...
ReplyDeleteRukunegara must amend sikit...
KEPERCAYAAN KEPADA ALLAH
KESETIAAN KEPADA RAJA DAN NEGARA
Bloggingsucks
it is 1000% the purpose of this sudden want to use Allah, is to confuse & break the muslims.
ReplyDeletethis website and explanation is very enlighting:
http://rausyanfikir .com/2010/ 01/prof-al- attas-view- on-polemical- usage.html
-when umno is weak-
GET A CHINESE/BUDDHIST JUDGE TO RULED THAT ITS OK FOR THE CATHOLIC HERALD TO USE THE WORD ALLAH...
ReplyDeleteJUST TO CREATE A HAVOC.
THEN FILE SOME APPEAL & WOW LAH... ANOTHER JUDGE OVERTURN THAT RULING.
AND ITS ANOTHER ROUND TO UMNO...
HOW STUPID CAN WE BE... SUCKERS FOR UMNO SENDIWARA!
KAH! KAH! KAH!
Bibles in Bahasa Melayu is only a translation ! It is a translation from the original bible language English (Though the original language of bible is not English since Moses and Jesus is not English but English bible is considered the authentic bible). The English bible never use the word Allah to refer to God. They use either God or Jesus. In Bahasa Melayu, the translation for God is Tuhan or AlMasih respectively. So, use the correct translation. In Bahasa Melayu, Allah does not mean God. In bahasa Melayu spoken by Malay people, Allah refers the the specific name of God. The problem with christians is they dont have specific name for God, so they assume that Allah means God which is wrong. In the Quran, Allah is a specific name of God. In the Quran, if God want to refer Himself as generic term, it uses Rabb. So, christians, please use translation in the proper manner.
ReplyDeleteOh please...such hypocrisy.
ReplyDeleteMen of Allah please listen up especially those from UMNO.
1. We in Sabah and Sarawak have been using Allah in our service BEFORE we agree to join Malaysia. So shut up. And we deliver the votes for you UMNO goons.
2. Can you give us the figures of HOW MANY MALAYS that have murtad because of us Christians using Allah in our service and our bible? Hello? Anybody? If you guys are so pious, why not shut down gambling (4D, Toto, Damacai - they all have Muslims patrons), ban alcohol (hey lots of Muslims are drinking in night clubs, anybody?).
3. What's next? Threaten to spill our Christian blood? Why not go ahead? Then we can be on the world news and we see how investors react to this. Najib can kiss his high income economy goodbye. We all know this hooha is made because of POWER. Kalau nak bising, this matter should have been brought up LONG TIME AGO. Why NOW?
4. Another sandiwara for the rakyat is it? We ALL know the COURTS are control by the GOVERNMENT AND THOSE RUNNING THE CORRIDOR OF POWER.
5. Kartika drank beer, you guys whip. Razak Baginda admitted to adultery. Where is that guy?
Muslims are full of hypocrisy.
Hi folks... did you read Marina Mahathir's piece on this "Allah" issue?
ReplyDeleteThis is the Marina you get after she married a French and now an Indon.
Bawa mengucap lah Marina.
My wife's mother is chinese. Therefore my wife looks chinese. She is a muslim though. We have a neighbour that is a born again christian. Nothing wrong with that except for the fact that she has an overzealous need to convert my wife to christianity. Sometimes she would send sms's to her using the word allah and quoting the bible at the same time. Nothing wrong with that either because we know what we are about. But what about those muslim kids and the ignorant souls. Dakwah and spreading the gospel is the same thing. This is a free country and faith is not something that one can regulate. But when it confuses the people, i think there is something underhanded in that. Many months ago my neighbour had a birthday party for her daughter. My daughter joined them. When I picked her up after the party she was singing "hallelujah" in the car.
ReplyDeleteI am as open minded as the next person but I think that the Court was wrong.
Everything is an issue in Malaysia! Even a simple word to call GOD is an issue! What is wrong with you people!
ReplyDeleteTo begin with, what is the REAL issue of not allowing any other religion but Islam to use the word ALLAH? Is it that it will confuse the muslim or is it that it will confuse the undecided? Which is which?
If you tell me it is to avoid confusing the muslim, I seriously think the muslims have a very very serious problem here! You mean to tell me that muslims can be easily confused just by a word? You mean beside this particular word, there is no other cross references or teaching or whatever that one can make reference and confirm the faith? YOU KIDDING ME BIG TIME OR WHAT?
If you tell me that this whole fiasco about the word ALLAH and the non muslim is to avoid the undecided, as in those who have no religion and are approached, making the wrong decision on religion, than yes, I see the point.
But than again, it is not hard for anyone to leave Christianity and embrace Islam right? I wont say it is easy if it is the other way around. So, is there a real issue here if an undecided soul pick Christianity thinking it is Islam and when the confusion is cleared, this undecided soul embraces Islam?
Must we be pigheaded and make this a "do or die" issue? Must we make it a My GOD and Your GOD, my GOD is better than your GOD saga? Must we of all things go on a big demostration to show that ALLAH is only reserved for one particular religion? Where is the sharing? Where is the compassion? Where is the giving? Can we not kill each other over a word? I am sure as the shine will raise from the east that ALLAH is not going to be pleased with such pettiness!!
VAN (anon@1:08PM)
ReplyDeletemarina mahathir represents herself and the rest of the Malay apologists who fancy themselves as Malay liberals.
they mouth all these popular remarks to tell everyone that : "hey, i'm not like THOSE Muslims who are so narrow-minded. I'm a liberal and i think these idiots are just so stupid for thinking what they're thinking".
let me tell marina and those self-proclaimed malay/muslim liberals that muslims generally won't make a fuss if you want to use "allah" in your sermons in your churches.
in fact, muslims don't think that if you use Allah in your christian newsletter today or tomorrow, that the next person will convert to christianity.
but muslims -- at least most of them with the exception of people like marina -- take exception when you insist on wanting to use Allah in your newsletters/publications.
why? because in the long term, there will be confusion.
don't be naive, people. there will be confusion.
don't have illusions. not all muslims have deep knowledge of Islam. Heck, some don't even know how to read the Quran, giving the excuse that they want to know the meaning first before reading it. but, aah..that's another story for another day.
anyway. perhaps marina is deeply knowledgeable and can tell a biblical verse from a quranic verse. Good for her!
when i was in indonesia, i got hold of some religious literature. i thoguth they featured quranic verses. i was wrong. they were all verses from the bible.
so, muslims will be wondering why the church is so insistent on wanting to use Allah in their newsletters..
Those who manipulate and exploit the issue on the use of the word "Allah" for their evil political agenda will have to answer to Allah on Judgement Day.Allah is taking note of all those evil ones in our midst.There is no escape, those who misuse Allah's name will be thrown into the boiling oil in hell till the soul cry out for mercy.Repent.
ReplyDeleteMessenger From Heaven
the archbishop can use "Allah" in his sermons. but to use it outside the church beyond the boundaries of the church, and in publications that can be distributed to people... well, don't get angry when i get very very suspicious of your intent.
ReplyDeleteUntuk pengetahuan sekalian, penggunaan Allah yang merujuk kepada Tuhan bukannya perkara baru dalam ajaran Kristian...Saya berasal dari KK, Sabah and sejak kecil menggunakan BM sebagai bahasa perantara dengan keluarga walaupun bapa saya berbangsa Cina and ibu saya berbangsa Kadazan. Jadi Saya pun yang mendapat pendidikan Sunday School dalam BM. Allah digunakan meluas merujuk kepada Tuhan. Ini disebabkan semua Kitab Injil dalam Bahasa Melayu datang daripada Indonesia dan merujuk Tuhan sebagai Allah. Itu adalah 18 tahun yang lalu. Sepanjang hidup saya d KK tidak pernah pun kawan-kawan saya yang beragama Islam mempersoalkan perkara tersebut. Sehinggalah sekarang.
ReplyDeleteAlex
Reply to Nik.
ReplyDeleteHow do you know that Muslims in Sabah/sarawak, the Arabs and other non-malay muslims countries are not confused by use of 'Allah' by non-muslims there ? How do you know that they are not feel annoyed by the practice ? I think they would be happier if non-muslims in those countries dont use Allah to refer to god.
The Christians in the Western world belittle Muslims by saying that Muslims worship Allah as moon god. You can find this in abundance in the internet. Now the christians in Malaysia want to use Allah (the moon god) as their god ? Is the brand of christian in malaysia different from christian in the Western regions ?
ReplyDeleteAisey these Pendatangs, give them a bit they ask for more.
ReplyDeleteBTW, you confident pendatangs won't be less Malaysian by how people call you so why worry.
Keling and Apek are also good words. These names have been used before in parts of Tanah MElayu,Malaya and Malaysia and we should not stop the right of fellow MAlaysian citizens to discontinue using these.
Also there is no proof that this will lead to civil unrest.
I also have a pet bitch which I call MarinaM Koteng.
My pet likes it and only insecure Marina's in these world will feel offended.
Chwylathurpe
There is only ONE God, and many religions admit that, but do each religion recognise that God by their true attributes so that what they know about the characteristics of the God are actually and truely describe the God ? If that ONE true God is described differently by different religion, then each must have different name to suit their description. 'Allah' is used by muslims and when Allah is mentioned, specific attributes of the God is attached to it.
ReplyDeleteIs is true that 'Allah' is not a copyright ? Under the copyright Act, it is not necessary that a word need to be patented or registered in order to qualify it as a copyright ! A distinct and substancial use is sufficient to make a word a copyright. Muslims clearly have the copyright of the word Allah. I hope any copyright lawyer can further clarify on this !
ReplyDeleteSome stupid people use Wikipedia to get a meaning of 'Allah'... If you want to know 'Allah', read Quran and hadith.. these are the authentic source.
ReplyDeletePart A
ReplyDeletePancasila - the Indonesian state doctrine or state philosophy - has 5 principles.
The 1st principle: Belief in the One And Only God (in Bahasa Indonesia: "Ketuhanan Yang Maha Esa")
The 2nd principle: Just and civilised humanity ("Kemanusiaan Yang Adil dan Beradab")
The 5th principle: Social justice for the whole people of Indonesia ("Keadilan sosial bagi seluruh Rakyat Indonesia").
The Pancasila focuses on "Tuhan" as God. The foundations of a just and civilised humanity and social justice for all Indonesians are based on a shared belief in the One And Only God.
Beautifully simple and direct. No obfuscations and theological meanderings.
But, then, that is Indonesia and this is Malaysia. Tak sama, ya?
According to some source, the culprit is Abdullah Munsyi. He is the one who translate 'God' as 'Allah' when ask by some priests, and those priests use the translation since then. Now the Ibans should know that the translation is WRONG and must make correction !
ReplyDeleteYou are a blasphemer of God, Rocky! You know ur blog is going to churn some sensitive stupid comments and you just let it go! The photo itself is a blaspheming against God! Repent or else! Sin is everywhere but curse is the one cause sins to flow! - Allah worshipper!
ReplyDeleteAlex (anon@12:45PM),
ReplyDeletethat is true.
but please know that the situation in sabah/sarawak is an exception for the very reason you have stated.
bahasa melayu is widely used in these two states. and culturally, the use of BM and Allah in sunday classes is a norm there.
so, of course it has nver been an issue and the federal govt, as well as the rest of malaysia, has accepted this peculiar situation.
it is different in semenanjung, sunday classes have never been taught in BM. sermons in churches never in BM.
in fact, if you want to hold your sermons and sunday classes in BM and use the word "Allah" in semenanjung, go ahead.
but surely you can understand the muslims feeling uncomfortable, to put it mildly, when you insist on using "Allah" in place of "god" in christian publications.
surely you can understand why....
I can take views and opinions regarding the issue from both the muslim and christian quarters but what I can't appreciate are the snide and blasphemous comments from the buddhists and hindus who themselves can't even decide which god to pray to today let alone tomorrow due to the numerous gods that they have. I also don't particularly care what the atheists have to say. After reading comments from allen ng and bunnies and people like them, I'm pretty much fed up.
ReplyDeleteSo can i suggest to these batu apis to shut up and mind your own religion?
Peeved
Alexandra,
ReplyDeleteThanks for the respond. I really understand how different it is in West Malaysia as compare to in Sabah/Sarawak. My explanation in BM merely a respond to some of the comments above that seems to be ignorant to the situation in Sabah/Sarawak pertaining to the usage of the word.
You have put it rightly that BM is widely used in churches in these states apart from their native language, Kadazan or Iban. If you go to any churches around KK that conduct its sunday mass in 3 languages (Chinese, English and BM), BM session is the most pack with people. The usage of the word in BM section of Herald or other Christian paper like Catholic Sabah of course is to cater Christian readers in these churches. Which like I said previously used Allah widely in their faith like myself.
Alex
skilgannon1066,
ReplyDeleteyou dont know your own Rukunegara?
* KEPERCAYAAN KEPADA TUHAN
* KESETIAAN KEPADA RAJA DAN NEGARA
* KELUHURAN PERLEMBAGAAN
* KEDAULATAN UNDANG-UNDANG
* KESOPANAN DAN KESUSILAAN
Ah yes, pity the East Malaysians Xtians who after hundreds of years of using the word 'Allah', are now being dictated by a bunch of Westies what word to use.
ReplyDeleteFont Futura
Rocky,
ReplyDeleteMarina ... Islam liberal!!! shut the duck up.
She is just a spoil ...tch! She even yea to anwar alike!
Shezzzz.. waht a BILF !!
'will confuse the muslim'
ReplyDeletebut the word 'ALLAH' has been used for years in East malaysia ...
i (along with thousands of other ppl) studies few chapters of ISLAM in my sejarah in the secondary school, i didn't get confuse!!
you know what confuse the Muslims
- is when ppl denote themself in a busy market in the name of ISLAM
- when some muslims shout for blood of other race / religion in the name of ISLAM
- when religious figures mix and shoke hands with dirty politicians
there are so many things that some muslims do that go against the teaching of Islam
these are the things that demotivate the younger generation from associating themself to ISLAM.
Skilgannon,
ReplyDeleteFan of Indonesia are you?
Me too. But for different reason. There, they force every one to have a malay name.
Have you chosen yours yet?
Sue Harr Toe
Anon 7:09 PM
ReplyDeleteReally, ah?
Can you point out to me the relevant sections of the Indonesian Constitution or the relevant Indonesian laws that mandate this?
And care to tell us just why Indonesians are calling for the late Gus Dur to be named a national hero of Indonesia?
Anon 7:09 PM
ReplyDeleteI just wanted to add - in your intellectual meanderings, have you come across a certain Leonardus Benjamin Moerdani (aka Benny Moerdani)?
To refresh what's left of your memory, the late Benny Moerdani, a prominent Indonesian Catholic, was:
- ABRI Commander-in-Chief 1983-88
- was appointed Indonesian Minister of Defence and Security by the then President Suharto.
To quote from the Wikipedia entry on him:
"Benny Moerdani was born on 2 October 1932 at Cepu, Central Java to R.G. Moerdani Sosrodirjo, a railway worker and his Indo Eurasian wife Rochmaria Jeane, who was half German. Moerdani was the 3rd out of 11 children. Although a Muslim, Moerdani Sosrodirjo tolerated his wife's and in their turn, his children's Catholic faith..."
Shouldn't be that difficult to understand, yes?
skilgannon1066 should also understand that the chinese assimilated into the majority lifestyle so much so that they can't even speak a word of hokien or cantonese or even mandarin
ReplyDeleteheh heh
some non-christians and non-muslime want to use the Sabah and Sarawak case to justify the use of 'Allah' in east Malaysia
ReplyDeletewhen there is no such occurrence in west Malaysia
so clearly it has nothing to do with language or religion
can the catholics justify their rejection of the word TUHAN - which is the ACCURATE translation in Bahasa Melayu??
see, how do you expect the Malay Muslims to have trust in the christians??
i suggest they all mass convert to ISLAM and you can freely use ALLAH every minute every day every year
jam ni la pembesar pembesar MELAYU bersuara.
ReplyDeletePendekar pendekar mengorak langkah!
jang dok diam.........
tak....pa.....lah........
menyesal nanti.................
ah chong
Anon 6:41 PM
ReplyDeleteDon't bulls**t, ok? I have travelled frequently to Jakarta and have seen (and heard) Indonesian Chinese there conversing freely in Mandarin, Hokkien and Cantonese. And in English too.
And you wanna reply to the point I made about the late Benny Moerdani - that an Indonesian Catholic could become Commander-in-Chief of the Indonesian Armed Forces? While retaining his Christian name!
Seems to me also that Benny Moerdani's father was a good example of a tolerant Muslim. How else would you explain the fact that Benny Moerdani was brought up in the Catholic faith and remained a Catholic until his death?
Anon 6:41 PM
ReplyDeleteHere are a few morsels for your peabrained intellect to chew on:
- among the members of President SBY's Cabinet are:
Transportation Minister - Freddy Numberi (Christian)
State Minister for Administrative Reform - Evert Ernest Mangindaan (Christian)
Trade Minister - Mari Pangestu (Chinese/Christian)
They appear to have been able to retain their Christian names, in spite of being appointed to the Cabinet.
And let's not forget Indonesia's Defence Minister - Purnomo Yusgiantoro - who has an Indonesian name, is Javanese AND a Catholic.
Or Ms Karen Agustiawan who is the President Director & CEO of Pertamina.
Masih juga ada orang bodoh yang ingat yang kat syurga ada racism - yang muslim je boleh masuk, yang lain akan masuk neraka. Ni sembayang kat Tuhan ke Syaitan?
ReplyDeletePakai la kepala hotak lu orang sikit.
korang semua x payah caci caci sesama sendiri.biar tuhan..... opppps silap!!! ALLAH shj yg memberi balasan kpd mereka yg ingkar n kufur
ReplyDeletetesting testing 1234
ReplyDelete