Event: The National Press Club's series of National DiscourseRegister on-line NOW. Mail your details to nationalpressclub@gmail.com to book a seat. Limited number of seats available. Admission is free.
Theme: The Perak Crisis
Date/Time: 24 April 2009, Friday
8 pm
Venue: Ipoh Town Hall, Perak
Shafee Abdullah, the prominent lawyer, has confirmed his participation. He will deliver a keynote address on the Perak Crisis, looking at it from his critical and professional angle.
The plan is to have a representative from the Pakatan Rakyat coalition in Perak and a representative from the Barisan Nasional government in the state to take part in the Discourse and respond immediately to points raised by Shafee.
Those in attendance will get a chance to raise their points and questions during a Q & A session. We should be able to wrap up by 10 pm or 10.30 pm latest.
The National Press Club's series of National Discourse is aimed at encouraging healthy debate on current issues. By organising these debates in the states (instead of in KL), the NPC hopes to establish rapport with the local reps and people, and touch based with the local journalists and bloggers.
Thursday, April 23, 2009
The Big "C" in Perak - A National Discourse
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Rocky,
ReplyDeleteyou can bet your bottom , all points raised will be in BN'S favour. No brainer there.
Anon, the trouble with this country is there are so many defeatists like you.
ReplyDeleteWe invited Shafee to the club earlier this month. There were more views NOT in BN's favor, I must say. There were views against PR as well. Shafee's professional take is important to keep the discourse fair and middle-of-the-road.
We hope the reps we are inviting from both sides will turn up.
Agree with Bru.
ReplyDeleteOne problem I noticed before is that the pro-BN people are quiet like a mouse when they attend talks or forums.
So usually, those who actually stood up to debate are not BN but Pakatan, so that's why Pakatan's views are heard more and louder.
-- Not a BN Mouse --
IPOH town hall...
ReplyDeleteJAUH bro,
Jalan Ipoh boleh lah.
Rocky,
ReplyDeleteLabelling or branding is a judgement, however presumptuos or unwaranted. It's a hallmark of any propaganda, whether commercial ad or political objective or social commentary.
Accept opinions with open mind and allow discourse to be rational, objective and unconditional. Debate the points and suspend judgement until all these are thoroughly thrashed.
Otherwise, it will be another exercise in futility,a proforma public presentation, a sounding board of like minds only..
Cheers,
Gerubuk
You guys can debate, organise forums or discourse, bend the courts, whatever you want in order to justify the takeover of legitimately elected Perak govt with the aid of treacherous assemblyman who still have corruption charges hanging on their heads (or is it going to disappear now that they support BN ?)
ReplyDeleteThe final court will be the court of public opinion.
As far as GE-13 goes, BN may have win this small battle, but they have lost the war.
At long last - there should be mroe debates like this.
ReplyDeleteHowever it is important that there is a neutral and well qualified moderator to ensure that both parties stick to the point.
Also it is important that both parties send people knowledgeable on the subject matter.
Shafee is a good choice as he is smart but although pro-BN - still worth listening to.
Rocky - I hope you can get people like Malik Imtiaz or Justice NH Chan - as they is bloody smart when it comes to law and the constitution.
The problem with this country right now is that there is not enough debate like this in our schools and colleges so people can gain knowledge and actually learn to openly debates points of contention and let viewers make their own minds up.
I admit I voted Pakatan in last election and still support them - we also need to encourage them to challenge BN points in open debate. It will help keep PR on the straight and narrow and improve quality of their reps as well.
Hope its on TV if not webcast......
Some people will not like it to be held in a hall. They prefer it on the street, more fun ...
ReplyDeleteorghang
bro rocky
ReplyDeleteplease record and put on you tube for the sake of those who cannot make it. many thanks.
Eager
salam bro,
ReplyDeletepls comment on the goverment's move to get rid of bumis quota for 27 services sector??? thanks
nationalpressclub@gmail.com
ReplyDeleteeh, bro. this is disingenous. you should have included malik sarwar together with shafee. is this the same shafee who handles barisan's legal cases? then it is only fair to include malik to join him to ask questions. this more like dua lawan satu! it is a question of perceived impartiality.
ReplyDeleteunless you tell me this shafee is the twin brother to that shafee i mentioned. or an all-together different person.
Perhaps Shafee can provide his understanding of Article 72(1) of the Constitution.
ReplyDeleteI have read that Article a few times and cannot seem to find agreement with the judges decision because it is plainly written in the Constitution. Yet, the learned judges seem to interpret it diametrically opposed to my layman's reading of Article 72(1).
I hope someone can enlighten the audience of what this means :
Federal Constitution: Article 72. (1)
The validity of any proceedings in the Legislative Assembly of any State shall not be questioned in any court.
Hey rocky it is not being deaftist but you are talking about a guy called shafie and don't pretend you don't know what he is all about.The one thing that ought to stop is the pretending that is going on in Malaysia.
ReplyDeleteSEMUA BOLIH
It would also be pertinent to get arsehole Malik Imtiaz Sarwar, human rights lawyer numero uno and uber constitution wanker to give his intellectual shit on the crisis:
ReplyDeleteNavigating The Constitutional Impasse (http://malikimtiaz.blogspot.com/2008/09/navigating-constitutional-impasse.html)
warrior 231
Dear Rocky,
ReplyDeleteYou wrote:
nationalpressclub.gmail.com
I think should be like this:
nationalpressclub@gmail.com
anon
FYI
ReplyDeletehttp://www.malaysianbar.org.my/bar_council_elections/bc_2009/2010_candidate_muhammad_shafee_abdullah_dato.html
BC 2009/2010 Candidate: Dato' Muhammad Shafee Abdullah
• Received his early education at the Royal Military College and graduated in 1972
• Pursued LLB (Hons) Degree from the University Malaya from 1973 to 1997.
• Was a visiting Law Lecturer and Tutor at University Malaya from 1978 to 1980.
• Was attached to Attorney’s General Chambers (1977) and during the seven years of service was a Deputy Public Prosecutor (DPP) for Selangor and the Federal Territory of Kuala Lumpur and Federal Counsel Malaysia.
• Was also the Departmental Solicitor/ Federal Counsel in the Public Trustee and an Official Administrator Malaysia.
• Also served on an Ad-Hoc basis as a Federal Counsel to the Ministry of Home Affairs Malaysia.
• From 1985-1987 served on the Editorial Board and was a Representative Correspondence for Malaysia and Singapore for the European Intellectual Property Review (Oxford).
• From 1986-1989 was on the Editorial Board of the Current Law Journal (CLJ).
• Pursued LLM at London School of Economics (LSE) in 1984. Was then attached to the Chambers of Blanco White QC and was under the pupillage of several leading Q.Cs including Mary Vitoria Q.C, Michael Fysh Q.C, and Robin Jacob Q.C. (apart from Blanco White Q.C.)
• Was called to the Malaysian Bar in April 1985 and was attached to Messrs Shearn and Delamore for six months before starting own practice under the name of Messrs. Shafee & Co.
• Awarded a DIMP (Darjah Indera Makhota Pahang) by HRH the Sultan of Pahang carrying the title of Dato’.
• Was appointed by His Majesty The Yang Di Pertuan Agong in 2004 as a Commissioner for the Human Rights Commission of Malaysia (SUHAKAM). This appointment was subsequently extended for another term.
• Member of the Criminal Law and Finance Committee of the Bar Council.
• Main thrust of work is in the area of Human Rights, Criminal Defence Rights and also investigation into the independence of Judiciary.
HOW HAS HE PERFORMED?
after wacthing shafee hujah on tv9, not worth attendind, that talk nonsence, very emotional,dont allow people talk even the pangacara.
ReplyDeletei,m pro bn but will vote any party other than bn in future
reason.perak crisis and najib.
Rocky!
ReplyDeleteCome !come why must it be that Shafee???I would'nt mind a retired judge or learned person but ....Like they already concluded it will be in BN 'S FAVOUR.It will say the back door takeover by Bn is okay semua!!
Shafee Abdullah, the UMNO legal advisor, the VVIP lawyer, the lawyer for Abdul Razak Baginda, Lingam, Vincent Tan, Mahathir, Umno etc etc.
ReplyDeleteWow! Rocky hebat. Finally the National Press Club is going to get funding.
How is Shafee Abdullah constitutional expert? Hahaha. Lawak jenaka terbesar abad ini. You might as well get the High Court Judge - JC Ridwan Ibrahim to come along as an expert.
what a waste of time/resources.
I have been trawling a Phakatan cyberrag for the past two days and left my time bombs there at:
ReplyDelete1.http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/index.php/opinion/breaking-views/23823-the-day-the-constitution-died--the-malaysian-insider
2.http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/index.php/opinion/breaking-views/24044-is-sultan-azlan-right-about-our-constitutional-monarchy--param-cumarasamy-
u know what, bro? instead of engaging and refuting, they disengaged and ran like the zombified pondans they are. They could not take it as the facts kept screaming at them stark naked, facts culled from their own lawyer swamijis, mahaguru wakils and legal tok lebais. What to do? larilah..cabut which is typical sus barbatus behaviour:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bearded_Pig
Stir shit and run while oinking away like some ma-fucking cretins GE13...GE13...GE13. What suffering from gonorrheal encephalitis ha!ha!ha! pegi mampuslah bangsat!
Warrior 231
Why this event, when the courts are still deliberating and deciding on several issues on this matter?
ReplyDeleteEven the BN MB for Perak has filed one more in the courts yesterday.
Tunggu lah.
Some smart fellow may say that this forum is improper at this point of time.
ANOTHER MALAYSIAN
generalization and streotyping are still in the minds of most PR and BN.
ReplyDeleteWhen will they ever change?
ahli UMNO temerloh
crack your mind and make some money from it. sell televising rights to any station who wishes to televise it. make some cool thousands.
ReplyDeleteSmart up
no to shafee. he is pro-bn.
ReplyDeletemalik is also pro-pr. but between them two, i'd say malik has a cleaner image.
nh chan...ah he's good. (i admit he's not on bn's side, though, apparently).
4RAKYAT.
In US of A, it is customary of which ever party that loses an election to hold a speech immediately after the results. The main gist of the speech was to thank their voters and also APPEAL to their voters to throw their support behind the winning party. They encourage their supporters to close ranks with the other party, to look at the bigger picture (their country). Because regardless of their political beliefs, they still live under the same sun in the same country...
ReplyDeleteSo call the Americans anything u want..but its hard to call them sore losers. They lose with class.
I wish i can say the same abt malaysian politicians
Is this more important than RPK's latest news?
ReplyDelete1. Not a BN Mouse....bro, if you must know most pro-BN people are attentive, listen and digress what is being said, they will discuss/write about it later.
ReplyDelete2. Pro BN people are quiet because they are good listeners who allow others to talk without interruption and speak their mind.
3. As for Pakatan supporters they will raise their points of course but as the saying goes, an empty tin makes the most noise and "diam-diam ubi(proBN) berisi"
salam bro.
ReplyDeletesaya rasa ni pertama kali saya datang komen di sini..
jarang nak komen sini sebab saya tengok semua pakai bahasa english.
bukan saya tak reti, cuma takut salah nahu tatabahasa jadi malu pulak.
hari tu pernah saya guna artikel bro utk diterjemah ke beberapa bahasa seperti cina,india,hebrew,arab berkenaan isu Raja kita..
cuma saya nak tahu tak salah untuk saya add blog bro dalam list blog saya kan ?
harap diberitahu jika ia tidak dibenarkan oleh tuan punya blog.
hehehe..
ada masa saya berbesar hati untuk jemput datang ke blog saya.
otai blogger mcm bro perlu selalu bagi nasihat adik2 yang masih mentah dalam dunia blogging ni.
tq bro.
Eddy, you are correct !!!!!
ReplyDeletePR people normally dont listen, they just want other people to listen to them only. They are afraid if they listen to other point of view, the other point of view can be right....
You probably meant nationalpressclub@gmail.com
ReplyDeleteThis is a small step in promoting openness in political discourse on issues affecting the country. Political maturity and awareness is still at a very low level, a culture spawned by years of "the government knows best" and skewed information and perspective of the mainstream media.
ReplyDeleteThe way I see it, this openness is cynical. Participative politics is very necessary for BN now, as many of the economic and political problems have come home to roost. This, in a way, is to share the blame with the opposition and the electorate who actually had little or no say in the of the current situation. Maybe now the public will see the oft-touted successes of the BN regime in the media is hogwash and not commensurate with the problems they have caused all these years.
Personally I find such a discourse to be more suited to a TV audience (uncensored of course). After all they bullshit and one-sided perspectives carried by the mainstream media, this is an opportunity to set the record straight from both viewpoints.
Ceramahs like these are more the avenue for the opposition to reach out. Or is this a BN attempt to test the waters first?
dude.. i think we need a people like YB Khairy.. we can ask him to teach us anyway.. what do you think?
ReplyDeleteRocky,
ReplyDeletewhy waste time and money organizing discourses etc,who forced you guys to listen to so many people to justify the Perak takeover?
Why not just dissolve the assembly and go back to the rakyat,and whatever the outcome is, shall be accepted in true spirit of democracy by every one.
Why belittle the intelligence of the people,are the people of Perak,not clever enough to know what they want?Dont they have a right to determine who shall govern them?Does it take a rocket scientist to see the double standards and selective prosecution by the judiciary at play?
The media and the judiciary shall never conceal the truth and facts,as these 2 institutions shall form a holy alliance and lead the way for nation building and therefore for the survival of democracy and also help keep tab on the powers that be.
But right now both these divine institutions are in shambles,and the country is heading nowhere.
I beg you journalist,please do your job without fear or favour,otherwise one day those injustices which you help conceal will come back to haunt you.I am not speaking on a particular party's behalf here,reporting the truth applies to all and sundry.
eddy, you forgot to tag grandoise self-asserting jacks to your 'BN people'.
ReplyDeleteRocky, I must congratulate you for supporting health debate in this country. It is the first step towards a more mature democracy in Malaysia. The fact that both side of the political divide are invited and shafee who is an independent citizen will act as a cordinator will make the debate less bias towars one group,thus making the debate important and meaningfull. I hope the National Press Club will organize more debate concerning national issues. Hope that you will keep us in the know about the debate in your blog postings. This is a great step for te contry and it's citizens.
ReplyDeleteWarrior,
ReplyDeleteMalik Sarwar took my case (against NSTP, Kalimullah & Gang) in early 2007. This was about the time when my buddies at the NSTP stopped calling me and started coming to the Press Club less and less (ultimately, they stopped coming).
You'll understand why he's not an a-hole to me.
Dear Teoh and others who said I should get Malik,
The hope was (still is) to get a politician from Perak Pakatan to speak after Shafee. If that's not possible, the legal advisers for the Pakatan in Perak. I check with them and was given the names of two top lawyers. Malik's name is not one of them.
Thank you.
And thanks for the correct email address ...
ReplyDeleteIts good that you have organise a healthy forum like this.
ReplyDeleteCongrats to you and your team in doing this. I hope it will attract ppl from both side of the political divide to engage in civilised debate. This is one of the rare engagement organised by the non-opposition mainstream organisation.
please organise more forums like this, like what happened between obama and mccain during the race
ReplyDeletefor presidency. please select people who can really debate and talk. thanks bro.
Debater
It is a waste of time as you know if you raise a question which The BeEnd does not like then you will be in the "lockup" the next day so do you think it will be fair trial?Think of it I better stay at home as the Federal Court id rule by them so what the hack to talk about.
ReplyDeleteSo what if Shafee is one of the debaters... I am not of one of his fans and think he can be full of crap. But the whole of point of a debate is one between opposing views and then we the viewers make a decision based on who makes the most compelling case.
ReplyDeleteHell - I constantly harangue Rocky for some of his points here - but I keep coming back because it is a forum for debate. Besides whats the point of just preaching to the converted.
As for Warrior 231 - your comments about Malik Imtiaz are beyond the pale. The man is highly respected not just here but beyond our shores and is constantly called upon for his legal opinion. He is also one of the few who is willing to stand up and defend those who need it against the full range of attacks from the government and corporate sector.
I can understand why he is not debating on behalf of Pakatan - as he always tried to remain politically neutral.
I hope the PR people have recommended good debaters and that they attend.
Monsterball ada sini. Jangan layan dia! Bolo punya olang!
ReplyDeleteHope they you tube the event.
ReplyDeleterocky -- you're doing good.
ReplyDeleteit doesn't matter if Shafee is this or that. He is open to a good debate. we are all open to a good debate.
I hate to make judgement about people. but i have noticed -- i mabe wrong -- that Pakatan supporters, members or whatever they profess to be -- are very prejudiced and are so blinkered and BIGOTED.
they call anyone who smacks of an leaning towards BN or may say positive things about BN, as ANJING. Why?
BN is like any other party... they have good and bad leaders.
Pakatan pun sama. Ada yang baik dan yang buruk.
Why have pre-conceived judgement about this forum?
WHy can't these Pakatan supporters be more open?
Are they representative of the leaders they support?
If the DAP is anything like the PAP, then I can tell you that they do not brook criticism and they do not tolerate dissenting voices.
I am a-political, non-partisan. So I am so able to see things without prejudice.
Here's the thing -- i can tell you that I am beginning to see the stripes and spots!
Dei Mazlan
ReplyDeleteStop being pompous and condescending. You sound so hoitty toity and considering where you are coming from, that doesnt faze nor surprise me at all.
Malik Imtiaz is a master equivocator, period. The same guy who pontificates about constitutional probity in the Perak issue is the very same guy who talked about buggering the constitution here:
Why the double standards? If its PR its great..if otherwise no-go?. The point is slimeballs like these give the legal profession a bad name and I know of no internationally renowned organisation or individual who holds this guy in high regard save some fools who recently conferred him an award for his "human rights endeavours".
The sooner they realise that they have garlanded a hypocritical equivocating fiend the better.
Now I issue a challenge in this 10 million hits blog for Malik Imtiaz Sarwar to debunk what he wrote up there (that is if he is man enough and got the balls to do so).
Malaysian Insider in lauding his so-called achievment noted that he was branded anti-Islam for the Article 11 initiative. Any surprises now as to why those dudes who gave him the award are fawning over him? They might as well as awarded it to Salman Rushdie for all I care.
And one more thing, in accepting it, MIS had the gall to sarcastically equate Malaysia with Zimbabwe et al though his analogy is as flimsy as a teeny weeny piece of lingerie and for people out there to adulate this individual, who has dragged our nation's name through the mud by his very act of acceptance and his condescending reflections about Malaysia, is indeed pathetic.
Maybe, other people are beguiled by the elegant prose, the erudite mien, the suave persona, the cultured intelectuel, the elan and the oh that so trendy activism, the bete noire of tyrants but the L'enfant terrible of the nouveau bourgeoise..oh the romance of a chevalier.. ahh! what would the posse of poseurs give for a rendevous with a mousquetaire
....
Not ME though...i look for principles - the backbone of any being deigning to call itself a MAN. does he have the gumption to stand up for the proles, the hoi polloi..if not, belahlah....you are no better than the people you rile against...
rocky
bro, i am not implying anything with that arsehole thingy with regards to you and MIS. It was just meant to express my utter contempt for this weasel.I respect your high regard of him for its your right just as I respect your right to continue engaging the other wakil whom i thought had kicked the bucket but is alive and kicking ; ).
Anyway, the pejorative appellations, i ascribe to certain people is to register my contempt for such people who are out to take the man in the street for a ride at HIS expense for THEIR own selfish motivations.
These scum are a dime a dozen in Malaysia but then what can you expect when about 40% of the populace are the descendants of immigrant coolies, tin mine ruffians, gangland yobs and whores ..but then i digress...
Warrior 231
What purpose does a re-enatcment of the court drama serve? This amounts to a mockery of our institutions, as if the court arguments and decisions were not legitimate.
ReplyDeleteWhat's critical and professional angle?
Isn't the Bar Council supposed to be the guardian of professional interests, if at all this impinges on professional matters?
The only professional concern here is the legitimacy of lawyers' training, as to whether they have been properly instructed to distinguish between what is within their purview and what are clearly matters of state, and therefore matters more properly within the purview of statesmen with proven critical faculty.
-Praxis
Malik Imtiaz the supremo uno.. my ass...
ReplyDeleteIt seems that you melayu pariah already forgotten about his Article 11 struggle (including the diciple of turban lollipops & road-rolling lebais)..sudah lupa kah? wow..malik imtiaz a worshipped hero now..a die hard fan..just see this guy below:
Mazlan 5.28pm wrote:
"..your comments about Malik Imtiaz are beyond the pale. The man is highly respected not just here but beyond our shores and is constantly called upon for his legal opinion"
highly respect my ass..hahah.. why not just call the hindraf's lawyers..they also go beyond our shores.. give them the chance for tongue twisting debate too..yeehaa..nandre2..aribba..
Lawyers? what is a lawyer without a law? A shit? They can never be at par with noble profession like doctor, engineer, architect, etc.. with law lawyers think the world revolve around them...try anarchy..hahaha..
Again, my middle finger! this time to those lawyers ass-lickers melayu pariah..
p/s: constitutional debate? booooorringgg...Yo! its saturday night in KL! More to 'C'.. Why wasting time cock wanking seeing both stubborn political bulls charging on their horns.. what's for refreshment? Legal justice?..yeah, and justice for all.. like diarhoea bullshit serve fresh from the very assholes of lawyers..
p/s: Rocky bro..i got nothing against u on this.. i just hate political civil lawyers..talk n talk n talk n end up nothing..talking is fucking cheap but just see their bills..the value for the art of tongue twisting? scavangers!
:D muhahahahaha...
-anti hindraf & ultra chingkies-
Ridzzy,
ReplyDeleteIn the USA, the AG, the election commission, the police force don't detain Republican politicians and prosecute them for fabricated charges. That's the difference. Stop wondering why Zimbabwe opposition politicians cannot behave like John McCain (losing Republican candidate).
I will attend the forum if Datuk VK Lingam and Tun Ahmad Fairus (ex-judge) are invited.
ReplyDeleteErrr Warrior 231 on your comment below
ReplyDelete"u know what, bro? instead of engaging and refuting, they disengaged and ran like the zombified pondans they are."
Actually most people just ignored you, bit of a self promotion, massaging the plumage?
he he he
Please do not waste your time. Nasi sudah jadi bubur. You have lost. Get ready for the next round. And this time make sure that you have the ability to manage the frogs on your side.
ReplyDeleteOne frog has brought this on PR.Ramalx